Episode 0015 · January 26, 2023

The podcast about what to do next.


Ziade and Ford ADVISORS right? Well you know the oldest kind of advice? Proverbs. Paul picks out some interesting ones to see what happens. Thoughts ensue.

Paul Ford: [00:00:00] Ziade and Ford Advisors, that is the name of this podcast. It is about sharing good advice. My name is Paul Ford.

Rich Ziade: And I’m Rich Ziade. 

Paul Ford: And we’re gonna share some advice. You know what Rich? You and I tend to talk about our stuff and careers and all this stuff, way too, way too much, way too much. We gotta– I wanna take it all the way back, all the way back to like what advice really is.

Rich Ziade: All the way, you wanna take it up. Up in altitude.

 Paul Ford: Up in altitude.

Rich Ziade: Up and out. Back-

Paul Ford: Back a couple hundred thousand years.

Rich Ziade: What, like fortune cookie type thing?

Paul Ford: Kind of, yeah. Like I want to read you some Proverbs. I want to read you some classic advice from around the world, and we’re gonna talk about it.

Rich Ziade: That sounds amazing. 

Paul Ford: I’m gonna lead with the best one because, you know, people might stop listening after five minutes, so let’s just get in there.

Rich Ziade: Go.

Paul Ford: Let’s do it, okay. Scottish, first of all, the Scottish have the best [00:01:00] proverbs. They are a grumpy people and grumpy people come up with good aphorisms and statements.

Rich Ziade: Alright [laughter].

Paul Ford: Alright, ready? I’m not gonna do a Scottish accent because, you know, I’ve, we– [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: That’s inappropriate.

Paul Ford: It’s just, I’ve been to all those training seminars. Um, “dead men do no harm”.

Rich Ziade: Oohff, unpack that for me. 

Paul Ford: Well, I think what it means is if you are alive and you are active in the world, you’ll do some damage.

Rich Ziade: No matter what?

Paul Ford: You’re gonna make mistakes, you’re gonna screw up, and you know what else?

Rich Ziade: what?

Paul Ford: That’s just the human condition. You’re just, until you’re dead, you’re gonna keep breaking glasses and causing thing, causing problems.

Rich Ziade: What you’re saying is wild to me because the way I heard it was in the context of advice, which is if you don’t want someone to do harm, kill them. 

Paul Ford: That’s the Lebanese version of this proverb.

Rich Ziade: [Laughter].

Paul Ford: The, the Scottish…

Rich Ziade: Yeah.

Paul Ford: Yeah. [00:02:00] No, no. The Scott-

Rich Ziade: Okay, the kinder interpretation is, mistakes will be made. 

Paul Ford: There’s another great Scottish proverb that, That’s related to this, which is, um, “you might as well be happy now for you will be a long time dead”. 

Rich Ziade: Ohhf.

Paul Ford: No, these are real, right? Like, I actually think is-

Rich Ziade: I’m just, I’m just seeing a gray sky and some whiskey getting poured into a glass there.

Paul Ford: But you’re wearing, you’re wearing a red kilt. And… it is pretty outside. You got those big those hills, they’re green. 

Rich Ziade: It’s very green.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: It’s very gray and it’s very beautiful actually.

Paul Ford: Very, very beautiful.

Rich Ziade: I, I’m not, I, I do love the beautiful tropical sun, but man, there is something beautiful about green and gray. I love those days too. Uh, strangely.

Paul Ford: Exactly.

Rich Ziade: Yeah. Um, the Scottish and the Lebanese are gonna have a divergence here of interpretation, no doubt. 

Paul Ford: Yes, but I love this. I like the, the reminder, right? Which is, because I think we, we talk a lot in our– everyday you go on Twitter and the [00:03:00] assumption is that you have to find ways to exist in the world where you do absolutely no damage in it, of any kind to anyone. And the reality is I don’t think there is such a way to exist.

Rich Ziade: And try to be happy. I mean-

Paul Ford: And try to be happy. What I do like to do, what I, do, a way to think about this right, is like, okay, “dead men do no harm”, okay, but how do you mitigate and manage the, you know, you, you you, by existing, you’re going to cause a mess. I’m gonna, I, you know what you’re doing right now?

Rich Ziade: Mm-hm.

Paul Ford: Even though you’re a good dad, I’ve watched you be a dad.

Rich Ziade: Mm-hm.

Paul Ford: You’re still messing up your kid.

Rich Ziade: A little bit. 

Paul Ford: He’s gonna grow up and in the year 2045 be like, “I love my dad, but he didn’t know the first thing about moon launches and here I am living in the moon colony”. 

Rich Ziade: “He could have helped me out here and gotten me ready”. 

Paul Ford: Yeah… he never had, He never cared about anything lunar.

Rich Ziade: Yeah, yeah.

Paul Ford: You know, and you’ll be like [laughter].

Rich Ziade: Look man, the job application of perfect parent is kind of an, it’s the impossible, right? Like, we’re gonna do the best we can…

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: And we’re hoping to end up at like above two thirds good. [00:04:00] 

Paul Ford: [laughter].

Rich Ziade: Like in the scale of good to bad, we just wanna cross 66% [chuckles]. And then there is a point where it’s like, okay, free will’s kicking in. Uh, he’s getting better at lying to me.

Paul Ford: Yeah [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: Uh, and so best of luck everybody [laughter].

Paul Ford: I’ll tell you there is, if you want to see the, the most broken humans are the perfect parents and their children, like, it’s just-

Rich Ziade: It’s a tragic, tragic-

Paul Ford: [sighs].

Rich Ziade: I I, I went to a gymnastics class recently.

Paul Ford: Oh yeah.

Rich Ziade: And, uh, it was just a, it was, it’s casual, my daughter does it, but there happened to have been tryouts for like preteens at the same time. It’s a big gym.

Paul Ford: Ughhh.

Rich Ziade: And let me tell you, the clenched fists amongst the parents as the tryouts were happening, it was so intense and it was not joyful. Like, they’re dancing, everybody’s dancing, there’s music playing– no one’s having fun. And you know, the, for a lot of parents, their kids are, um, [00:05:00] 2.0, right? They’re trying to like, okay, I got this far, I’m gonna take you even further. You are, you are, my feeble attempt at immortality, right?

Paul Ford: You have so much talent. 

Rich Ziade: You have so much. Yeah, and-

Paul Ford: Don’t you dare waste it [shouting].

Rich Ziade: And the joy gets kind of tossed aside, right?

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: That that’s, that’s the thing.

Paul Ford: Ah, it’s that, it’s that.

Rich Ziade: Yeah.

Paul Ford: So, So, you know, “dead men do no harm”, so, you know what, I-

Rich Ziade: Man, you started to get dark. 

Paul Ford: Let’s get out there and do some harm, my friend.

Rich Ziade: Yeah, yeah. Are you gonna gimme one, like about eating vegetables at least? Lighten it up a bit.

Paul Ford: Oh wait until we get to the Lebanese one. Uh, here we go, this one I love, “Empty vessels make the most noise”. 

Rich Ziade: Oohf, Oohf.

Paul Ford: [laughter] See, this is my– there is nothing, proverbs are actually the most brutal form of literature. 

Rich Ziade: I mean, if I could turn that into a rap [laughter].

Paul Ford: Yeah, I know, it’s exactly right. And then an “empty”-

Rich Ziade: Break that one down. I mean, I, I feel like I could take a crack at it, but go.

Paul Ford: Yeah, I know I, I’m, I’m, I’m looking at your fancy coffee [00:06:00] mug right here with the top on it.

Rich Ziade: Mm-hm.

Paul Ford: Um, first of all, objectively, if you have, if you drop like an empty pot, it’ll metal canister. It’ll make a really big noise. 

Rich Ziade: Yeah, okay. 

Paul Ford: Okay. The person who has absolutely nothing within them is the one who will make the most screeching, will cause the most distress. And so, on and so forth, the person who is internally has a lot going on is probably gonna go keep working on their stuff and that’ll be able to raise points, but the person who doesn’t have a lot going on will yell and scream and create a lot of drama.

Rich Ziade: Yeah. I, I mean, and I’m gonna try to throw that explanation back at you.

Paul Ford: Okay.

Rich Ziade: Uh, uh, without being cruel or mean or whatever, we, we do a podcast twice a week. Um, but we don’t do it for approval or attention. Uh, it just happens to not be part of our personalities. Um, it’s about sort of a self-assuredness, uh, when you say empty vessel, I just, I just [00:07:00] ran to a conclusion around, okay, this is someone that has to market and promote themselves, uh, to compensate, right? And sometimes there are a lot of good things there, uh, but they need to be the star of the show.

Paul Ford: There you go.

Rich Ziade: Right?

Paul Ford: No, there, there may not be anything going on. 

Rich Ziade: There might not be anything going on, and you know what? Believe me, there’s always everyone’s– I’m gonna be kind here, Pause, lemme say it again, but believe me everyone has something going on. Like nobody has nothing going on.

Paul Ford: Yes, that’s, true. 

Rich Ziade: I can have, I can have a drink with just about anybody.

Paul Ford: Alright, so you-

Rich Ziade: One drink, Paul [chuckles].

Paul Ford: You disagree with this proverb writer?

Rich Ziade: No, I don’t. I think there are a lot of people like this who feel like they need to, uh, perform a lot. 

Paul Ford: Make the, make the sound 

Rich Ziade: To make, they, they need to make the sound because they feel like it’s not enough. What they’ve got is not enough. I mean the person who hangs back silently– 

Paul Ford: I mean, here, this would be– oh, go ahead. Go ahead. 

Rich Ziade: I have a friend, you’ll [00:08:00] finish your story and then he will stare at you for like another five to 10 seconds.

Paul Ford: Yeah, that’s a rough five to 10 seconds. 

Rich Ziade: It’s a rough five to 10 seconds, but I don’t think he’s, he’s not trying to like stare you down.

Paul Ford: He’s just not A small talker. 

Rich Ziade: He’s not a small talker and he’s kind of processing what you just said.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: And it throws you off. So what you, what I end up doing is like, okay, I’ll give you some more words.

Paul Ford: If someone is actually present and paying attention to you and really listening to what you said, it’s incredibly confusing. Like it’s [chuckles]-

Rich Ziade: [laughter] Instead of talking over each other, which is normal.

Paul Ford: Which is what we’re doing right now. It’s the most statistically unlikely experience, right?

Paul Ford: I think, um, alright, so let me, let’s, let’s go to, the, let’s go to the Levant– I’ll give you some proverbs from, uh, from, from Lebanon.

Rich Ziade: Mm-hmm.

Paul Ford: Okay. From the Lebanese.

Rich Ziade: Oh, boy, these better be nice Paul. I’m Lebanese for the new listeners out there.

Paul Ford: Okay, “blood does not become water”, kind of a classic. 

Rich Ziade: [00:09:00] Okay. 

Paul Ford: Okay, what’s that mean?

Rich Ziade: It’s similar to blood is thicker than water.

Paul Ford: Mm-hm.

Rich Ziade: It is something that’s very foundational, uh, in, in the Lebanese, but also I would say safely in the Middle Eastern culture, uh, family. Uh, family is non-negotiable, foundational. Um, a huge part of your identity is not your own. 

Paul Ford: Non-negotiable is a fascinating term here because I’ll tell you, when I first heard this proverb, when I was a kid and I heard “blood is thicker than water”, it didn’t make any sense to me.

Rich Ziade: Sure. 

Paul Ford: It’s Just not, it’s just not the way that we conceive of as family. And I, I feel that like, and it family is negotiable in, in Western society.

Rich Ziade: It’s wonderful…

Paul Ford: Well, not all of them, but definitely in, in America.

Rich Ziade: I think, I think I, I’ll give you an example. Uh, I immigrated here with about 20 family members in the late seventies.

Paul Ford: Sure.

Rich Ziade: And we started to learn [00:10:00] about like colleges and how people apply for colleges and then leave home at like 18 years old, and that was absolutely alien to us. That was unheard of and insane sounding. 

Paul Ford: What if you’re a smart person in a village in Lebanon and you’re 18 years old?

Rich Ziade: Many leave.

Paul Ford: Okay.

Rich Ziade: Many leave, but the, the, the notion of not, of leaving the family without getting married, and this is kind of just old school stuff, but also leaving the family and not supporting the family is the other thing. There’s no retirement plan and off to Florida, uh, you’re supposed to take care of your elders, but beyond that, it’s about family. Now here’s the, the, the flip side of that. The flip side of it is there is an absolutely hilarious building in Lebanon it’s called the Pink Building.

Paul Ford: Okay, it’s pink.

Rich Ziade: And it’s two brothers who got into like a throw down fight, and one brother owned this beautiful apartment building that [00:11:00] overlooked like a mountainside in Lebanon, and the other brother owned the land across from it. And he built up a fake wall that looks like a another building, but I guess he didn’t have the money to build the actual building just to block the other brother’s view.

Paul Ford: Mm-hm, offfff.

Rich Ziade: There’s also a legendary falafel shop, a restaurant in Lebanon where the brothers finally got into a fight and right next door they opened, the other brother, opened a competing falafel place.

Paul Ford: [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: So like they’re literally next to each other. If you search, pause, search for it, it’s hilarious.

Paul Ford: Oh, no, no, I’ve seen, I’ve seen it. Don’t– unpause. I used-

Rich Ziade: So blood is thicker, “blood is thicker than water”, sounds warm and wonderful. My mother calls me a dozen times a day, you know this as well as anyone.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: And uh, the thing about-

Paul Ford: What are some of, I mean, actually let, let’s talk about those calls cause some of them are just checking in, but often they’re just sort of like, you don’t call me back, because…

Rich Ziade: You’re too fancy. 

Paul Ford: You’re too fancy. 

Rich Ziade: Well, for five years, my mother thought that when she was leaving a voicemail, that it was like [00:12:00] the voicemail machine from the eighties where I could hear it. 

Paul Ford: Oh, you’re sitting there ignoring her. 

Rich Ziade: Yeah, so she would scream out as if it’s blasting out to the room, but it was getting stored on a cloud-

Paul Ford: [laughter] See the worst part is-

Rich Ziade: On a server somewhere.

Paul Ford: This is just infinitely entertaining to you, like you’re not gonna stop-

Rich Ziade: It’s entertaining. 

Paul Ford: You’re not gonna stop this from happening.

Rich Ziade: No, no, my mom will call me for no good reason and then will tell me you didn’t answer the phone cause you’re too fancy or whatever.

Paul Ford: Okay, got another, got one more Lebanese for you and then we’ll do a few more “Movement is a blessing”. 

Rich Ziade: Mmmm. That is me. 

Paul Ford: Yeah, it is.

Rich Ziade: If there is-

Paul Ford: It’s actually, but I gotta say I work with, I’ve now worked with maybe three or 4 million Lebanese people, the entire population of Lebanon. When you work with [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: Yeah.

Paul Ford: And, uh, it is a, as a culture, it is a lean in culture. Let’s go. Men, women, everybody, let’s go. I’m gonna make the list. Here it is, it’s on the screen.

Rich Ziade: I, I, I think they are. Uh, look, I think, I don’t know how old the proverb is.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: But I can tell you that Lebanon [00:13:00]is, uh, does not have a long history of clear borders and stability [laughter].

Paul Ford: Sure.

Rich Ziade: It is essentially a, a gateway, a trade point between the Mediterranean and the East. And, uh, there’s just massive, massive instability, massive uncertainty. And so if you sit still, uh, you wither away, you are, you’re vulnerable. Keep moving, keep figuring out the next thing, don’t trust, don’t trust stability. Don’t-

Paul Ford: Kind of an irony though, given that we just talked about blood being thicker than water, don’t ever leave the village, but you gotta keep moving.

Rich Ziade: Well if the family stays together, there’s a greater likelihood of survival for everyone.

Paul Ford: Okay, so “movement is a blessing” as long as the whole family’s moving with you.

Rich Ziade: Family is a support system.

Paul Ford: I do like “movement is a blessing”, as a-

Rich Ziade: “Movement is a blessing”.

Paul Ford: That’s a good pro, like let’s get, let’s get that tattooed. 

Rich Ziade: Action is greater than inaction is like something I say when I [00:14:00] think strategically, like I don’t know if it’s right. I, the five things we’re gonna do this week to help us get out of the situation we’re in, four may be wrong or maybe all five are wrong, but I know what’s worse, not doing anything. So I just do stuff like that is that very much drives how I think about things. 

Paul Ford: Well this is, the cost of being– here’s what I’ve learned from working with you and I, I think that I have this instinct, but working with you made it really clear to me, which is that you talk a lot about optionality. I want as many options in front of me as possible.

Rich Ziade: Mm-hmm.

Paul Ford: Okay, you don’t actually, we don’t chase every dream because that exhausts everyone around you.

Rich Ziade: Mm-hmm.

Paul Ford: What you do is you put all the dreams up on the whiteboard and then you make a couple little bets here and there towards the different dreams, and if any of them shows any progress, you double down, and you double down, and then eventually one dream just becomes obvious and everybody forgets all the other dreams.

Rich Ziade: Yes.

Paul Ford: Right?

Rich Ziade: Yeah.

Paul Ford: We’re seeing that with the product we’re building, it’s becoming one thing, and you would never know it’s been 25 [00:15:00] things along the way. 

Rich Ziade: And, and I think that if there’s one thing to take away from our philosophical podcast today, it is that if you think you can plot it out in a document and get it all right, you’re wrong. You need to go out. Um, I, I call it being, uh, strategically aggressive, tactically conservative. What I mean by that is just go, don’t sit and write the long essay about your plan. Just go, because what you’re gonna find like day three, is that you had, a few of your assumptions were off and you’re gonna have to adjust and you’re gonna have to adjust again and you’re gonna have to keep adjusting. That’s, this is similar. Let’s take it back to software, get the software out and learn, right? Like people say, don’t, don’t live with it for too long. We gotta get it out. We gotta get the software, and that’s right. That’s the right advice.

Paul Ford: “Movement is a blessing” we’re gonna write that in-

Rich Ziade: “Movement is a blessing”, I’m going to get that tattooed across my forehead.

Paul Ford: [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: No, that’s not good. In Arabic letters.

Paul Ford: That’ll that, That’ll be [00:16:00] that’ll be weird. Yeah, that’s great. You’re not gonna get on a plane again, after that [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: [laughter] Fair enough. 

Paul Ford: Okay, I got a couple-

Rich Ziade: One more for-

Paul Ford: Let’s do two more “at a great bargain”, this is now we’re in the world of older British and English Proverbs “at a great bargain” Rich, “make a great pause”. 

Rich Ziade: Mm-hm, Mmmm. This is similar to “if it’s too, too good to be true, probably it is”. 

Paul Ford: Too good to be true.

Rich Ziade: Yeah. I mean– yes, yes, um, do your homework-

Paul Ford: Phone plans. 

Rich Ziade: [laughter] I mean, look, I was, I was watching recently, by the way, I’m gonna go on an aside here, I know we’re not supposed to do this because this is the Ziade and Ford podcast. If you wanna know how the economy is doing, check to see if Paul Giamatti is dressed up as Einstein on the Verizon ad [laughter].

Paul Ford: [laughter] what does that tell you? Is that, it’s like the groundhog-

Rich Ziade: I think he just got, he’s got three kids in college and he’s gotta do the [00:17:00] ad. 

Paul Ford: He’s on billions, he has choices. 

Rich Ziade: I don’t know, I don’t know. Have you seen the ad?

Paul Ford: Yes, I have. Yeah, how can you avoid it?

Rich Ziade: He, he, there is no, uh, there is no period piece he can go do, to reclaim his integrity as an actor after this segment [laughter].

Paul Ford: [chuckles] Oh I know, let Paul Giamatti make a little money. You know-

Rich Ziade: It’s all good, it’s all good [laughter]. 

Paul Ford: It’s okay, I will say I, I do have to get another aside, which is Google buying out every bit of ad inventory during the World Cup [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: [laughter] Yeah.

Paul Ford: Or maybe it was, because we were watching it on YouTube TV a lot, but oh my God. 

Rich Ziade: I don’t know exactly where but it was a lot. It was-

Paul Ford: I saw the same pixel ad about 36,000 times.

Rich Ziade: It’s kind of terrible actually.

Paul Ford: Yeah. Alright, we’re gonna do one more.

Rich Ziade: Go.

Paul Ford: “A full purse maketh the mouth to speak”.

Rich Ziade: If you’ve [00:18:00] got money-

Paul Ford: you just run your mouth, you know, e- Elon Musk. 

Rich Ziade: Oohff.

Paul Ford: It’s real. 

Rich Ziade: It’s real. 

Paul Ford: It’s real. People, you know what it is and I mean, look- here, here’s a podcast-

Rich Ziade: We do know wealthy people who don’t talk very much.

Paul Ford: But here’s a podcast where two guys, sold their company and are running their mouths [laughter].

Rich Ziade: And we were like, let’s do the podcast twice a week. We’ll, we’ll give everybody advice.

Paul Ford: Okay so, so we’re as guilty as anyone.

Rich Ziade: [laughter].

Paul Ford: But, but I, I will say like I, in our defense, we don’t have all the answers. As part of us sort of doing this is us kind of figuring out and unpacking what we’ve learned.

Rich Ziade: Yeah.

Paul Ford: There is something man, people get a dollar in their pocket and they know everything. They know how you should eat, they know how you should dress. They know what you need to do next. And they can’t wait to tell you. 

Rich Ziade: Yeah, you know, I’m reading this a little bit differently than you. 

Paul Ford: How are you reading it?

Rich Ziade: Uh, I’m reading it as like power. Uh, if you’ve got money, then you get to tell others, you get to dictate a lot of things.

Paul Ford: Ooh, I, think that’s right, yeah. 

Rich Ziade: That’s how I’m reading [00:19:00] it.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: Which is like, if I, if I have money, that means I have power. And if I have power, you will all pause and listen to what I say. Um, which by the way still applies to Elon Musk.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: I mean, it’s the same thing. Um, there’s a lot of people who’ve, in fact, it’s a dangerous place because it’s a lot of positive reinforcement of, of a lot of fanboys and girls telling him he’s great and he’s right. And then reality slaps him in the face, right? I mean, that’s, that happens when people, um, surround themselves– Putin, I mean, it’s hard to sit down and rationalize the invasion of Ukraine.

Paul Ford: There is a, there is a great quote. It’s often attributed to Dorothy Parker, another proverb, and I, I don’t actually think she originated it, and I started to research it at one point. “If you ever wonder what God thinks of money, just look at who he gave it to”.

Rich Ziade: [laughter] There you go.

Paul Ford: So it’s just like, bam. 

Rich Ziade: There you go, but look out of fairness to the other billionaires who don’t run their mouths. Not everyone does it. Some people are extremely discreet and [00:20:00] quiet about their money. They don’t wanna wield it as a source of power.

Paul Ford: Sure.

Rich Ziade: But most can’t help themselves.

Paul Ford: No, it’s just it’s especially, especially in a world of social media with Instagram. And, I’m gonna close with one just for thoughts, just for thoughts. um, uh, “next to love comes quietness”.

Rich Ziade: Whoa, break it down. 

Paul Ford: Do we even need to? I feel like we should just stop the podcast right there. 

Rich Ziade: I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s the-

Paul Ford: Play the outro. 

Rich Ziade: Uh, I mean, you just, that’s the flip of the coin for what the, the quote before, right? 

Paul Ford: See, I don’t know. Is this one true for you as a Lebanese person from a big family? I don’t think quietness is your thing, I think you like a little noise. 

Rich Ziade: I love family, I love the loudness of everybody being in the house. And I do love that. Like I’m not, you know, I, I don’t, I don’t have that strong desire to be like in silence and left alone and whatnot. Uh, I’m reading this differently again than you.

Paul Ford: Mm-hm.

Rich Ziade: [00:21:00] Which is, uh, when there’s a connection, uh, a lot less needs to be said.

Paul Ford: Oh, interesting, “next to love, there comes quietness”. 

Rich Ziade: That’s how I read it.

Paul Ford: Interesting.

Rich Ziade: But, but that’s what these pro, that’s what makes these proverbs so fun. 

Paul Ford: Then why do we talk so much?

Rich Ziade: We need to stop talking.

Paul Ford: Apparently we should just shut up [chuckles].

Rich Ziade: Just shut up.

Paul Ford: See, for me next to love, I mean, yeah if you told me Paul, good news, you’re gonna get to sit quietly in a room with headphones on for six hours.

Rich Ziade: Yeah.

Paul Ford: I’d be like, finally…

Rich Ziade: I, like those days, don’t get me wrong, I don’t need to be interacting with people. I like to-

Paul Ford: Oh really? Cause we, we don’t have many of those days.

Rich Ziade: We don’t have a lot of them, but it does feel good.

Paul Ford: [laughter].

Rich Ziade: I, I’m gonna put my headphones. Sometimes we shout at each other, “headphones are going up, we’re gonna get some stuff done”.

Paul Ford: Yeah, and then usually within 15 minutes you’re like, “you wanna go get coffee?”. 

Rich Ziade: Can I share some advice?

Paul Ford: Oh please, please [chuckles]. 

Rich Ziade: A proper advice related to this whole podcast.

Paul Ford: Yes, yes.

Rich Ziade: Um, go look up proverbs on the internet.

Paul Ford: It’s great project [00:22:00] Gutenberg has lots, we’ll put some links in.

Rich Ziade: Um, this is the Ziade And Ford Advisors podcast. You can find us @Ziadeford.com. 

Paul Ford: We’re gonna, uh, we’re gonna drop some more proverbs in, in the future. I love Proverbs.

Rich Ziade: Proverbs are fun. Let’s tweet ’em out, Paul. 

Paul Ford: Alright, well we’ll tweet out some proverbs. 

Rich Ziade: We’ll tweet out some proverbs. Um, we got a new logo coming out soon and we’re feeling pretty good about, woo.

Paul Ford: Oh pretty exciting.

Rich Ziade: Uh, no one cares about that, or maybe they do.

Paul Ford: No they don’t.

Rich Ziade: Uh, okay, they don’t. Um, hit us up @ZiadeFord on Twitter and hello@ZiadeFord.com.

Paul Ford: All The systems are operational. Alright, let’s go. 

Rich Ziade: Have a great day.

Paul Ford: Bye. 

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