Episode · August 1, 2023

The podcast about what to do next.

World News Tonight

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[Unedited Transcript]

Rich Ziade: Hi Paul,

Paul Ford: Richard, how are you?

Rich Ziade: I’m doing well. I want to play a little game. Do you like games?

Paul Ford: This is the beginning of a horror movie. Yes, I like games.

Rich Ziade: I’m gonna name a country and you tell me the first thing that comes to mind

Paul Ford: Oh, great. This can never be problematic and can only work out in my interest. Go ahead.

Rich Ziade: Try to be topical like think what you heard about this country recently even in the last few years Iran

Paul Ford: Uh, sanctions, civil unrest, youth protest.

Rich Ziade: Algeria.

Paul Ford: Not a lot, frankly. Um, I just probably, uh, I think of it more like in terms of [00:01:00] France and Parisian unrest and stuff like that.

Rich Ziade: Afghanistan.

Paul Ford: Rights of women being severely abrogated, U. S. pullout, long term rise of Taliban, and collapsed state.

Rich Ziade: Okay. So, those all make sense. I’ll stop there for a second. Let me tell you what’s happening in these countries right now.

Paul Ford: Okay, I’m

Rich Ziade: In Iran, Iran, because of sanctions, so you’re kind of in the, in the ballpark, decided to be self sufficient. And so they routed all their water to farming. And now they’re suffering through.

a massive heat wave, like multi month and a massive water drought such that people in rural towns and cities and, and, and less populated areas are fleeing because there’s no water.

Paul Ford: They’re migrating, they’re migrating away from these, from drought.

Rich Ziade: Exactly. Okay. [00:02:00] In Algeria.

Paul Ford: you’re saying, by the way, that that is a mix of both social policy failure and climate change.

Rich Ziade: Yeah, but it also absolutely record breaking to like the asphalt at the airport in Tehran airport was melting. Algeria is suffering through massive wildfires. Massive like where Greece has been in the news a lot lately because of its wildfires But you have to understand the infrastructure and the capabilities of an Algeria to even deal with wildfires And they’re suffering through massive wildfires because of drought and dry weather and no rain and just extreme weather conditions Afghanistan is itself again people can talk about You know Rights of women and just the regime and how repressive it is, which is all true, frankly but you have to also keep in mind that they’re utterly incapable of Dealing with what is coming at them from a [00:03:00] climate perspective.

So they’re suffering through massive droughts Essentially livestock is dying left and right which is you don’t go to the supermarket in Afghanistan. You just raise the goats, right?

Paul Ford: an enormous amount of your wealth, right? Like you can’t, you can’t lose your sheep.

Rich Ziade: exactly and Two things come to mind when I, by the way, how do I know all this? Am I going and searching on like Algeria news on Google news? No, there are better sources of information in the world. I just got exhausted with like polarizing shout at me. News sources right or or lecture at me You’re either getting yelled at or you’re getting lectured to in the news and I just saw it other places You know, I don’t read The Economist because it’s enormous amounts of pressure to read The Economist on a weekly

Paul Ford: Oh, it piles up. It makes the New Yorker pile. Like there’s the New Yorker pile, but the New Yorker pile, you’re like, well, at least there’ll be, there’ll be cartoons in there. I can take, that’s a, the worst thing in the world is the economist in the bathroom, New Yorker in the bathroom. You’re like, okay. But

Rich Ziade: Well,

Paul Ford: [00:04:00] economists in the bathroom are like, Oh, I wonder what Bagahad has to say,

Rich Ziade: Exactly. Well, you know, the New Yorker is almost designs for you to cherry pick articles that you think you want, you’re in the mood for,

Paul Ford: the New

Rich Ziade: the economist, it’s like, sit down and don’t say a word.

Paul Ford: deep down the New Yorker knows it is an entertainment product, whereas The Economist is literally like… A guide for colonialism. It’s like colonialism’s updated brochure on a regular basis. Like, Hey guys, you know, I know we used to have that country. You might want to know what’s going on in there because you probably have some business interests.

Like there are absolutely people who read the economist who are essentially running chunks of the Dutch East India company, but it doesn’t have that name anymore. Right. Um, so it’s for them. It’s for them.

Rich Ziade: so the Economist is is frankly it’s just there’s an Asia section and then there is a Middle East section and then there’s a Central America like they just go down the list and they have to report on it, right?

Paul Ford: Yeah, it’s literally like a list of old girlfriends. I wonder how they’re doing. [00:05:00] That’s the economy.

Rich Ziade: Yeah, I mean, and you know, I watch Al Jazeera. I often like rope you into watching Al Jazeera like during

Paul Ford: So look, I

Rich Ziade: work together in the same location

Paul Ford: we stopped when we are solo in the office and that will often be our lunchtime viewing it’ll watch like some dumb video on YouTube and then you’ll just sort of slide on over and it’ll be like, it’s always a very British accent, even though it’s coming out of Qatar and it’ll be like news from the Algerian oil fields or the, you know, a lot of a lot of oil in Al Jazeera.

So let’s break it down because not everybody knows this. So Al Jazeera is very much like BBC World News. It’s like a very buttoned up news, 24 hour news network. It is produced by the state of Qatar, which is like a real kind of old school Arab,

Rich Ziade: That’s the asterisk, right? I mean, you’re not going to get any Qatar news except, hey, Qatar donated millions of dollars to some cause. There’s no Qatar news on Al Jazeera.

Paul Ford: Our system is the [00:06:00] best. Um, and you know, they were very pro the world cup, the way that all the world cup stuff unfolded. Not a lot of coverage about like just the enormous amounts of money. Going to FIFA that made that happen, that kind of thing. So, so you, you definitely are getting a certain bias, but yes, I agree with you.

I, as an experienced consumer of media properties. It is actually, and it doesn’t get a lot of due, America was very down on it starting around the Gulf War era, like Rumsfeld came out against Al Jazeera and so on, like it, it actually was seen as an enemy of the state for a minute, so there’s a little of that hovering around it, but mostly what you have is news about socioeconomic situations with a bias to coverage that is not focused on the U.

S. The U. S. isn’t, but, and actually, and then I think the last thing to say is like, it’s an Arab property. So it, it favors Palestinian narratives over the official Israeli narrative, like

Rich Ziade: Exactly. I mean, but [00:07:00] also it’s extremely buttoned up in that we are gonna report global news And it’s gonna be kind of boring We’re just gonna tell you what the heck just happened, right? And so I’ve been watching it for a while and what I’m noticing lately is that they are reporting on Just Pockets of instability and frankly the beginning.

I feel like I’m looking into the future in a way

Paul Ford: Oh, you’re, well, this is, this is to my point about Lebanon being a guide to understanding climate change, right? Because you see what happens when instability hits a country and you see how people react. It’s not this like instant, oh my God, the world’s ending. It’s a what, what, what frameworks and structures make you more resilient.

So you’re looking at Al Jazeera and you’re seeing chaos

Rich Ziade: I have two sort of threads here [00:08:00] that I want you to react to. One is um, https: otter. ai Shatter a lot of the dynamics power dynamics in the world because water is water. Um,

Paul Ford: and heat is heat. Yep.

Rich Ziade: heat is heat. And if people are dying in the streets of Tehran, no matter how much we think they’re an evil empire, a reckoning is coming, right?

It’s going to become something that is going to, by force, frankly, like we’re not going to have a choice in it. Um, from a hopeful perspective, potentially align us as humans around what is coming. It’s like an alien landed, you know, if an alien landed, Like the giant ship landed in the middle of the Atlantic and green people came out.

We would call Putin and say, Hey man, let’s get on the same page with this one. This is a problem.

Paul Ford: gotta, we gotta really focus on this.

Rich Ziade: We have nuclear weapons. You have nuclear weapons. This green guy just told us that [00:09:00] the earth is his, so we’re going to have to deal. So there is a common enemy here, right? Um, that is The ship has sailed in terms of responsibility.

Well, China’s responsible, the U. S. That doesn’t matter at this point because there’s no water.

Paul Ford: you have just alienated a huge number of people who are sitting there going like, why do we need to, uh, why are those countries responsible when the main emitters, um, are not seeing the same consequences? So there’s people advocating for a huge distribution of wealth and responsibility around all this stuff.

Here’s what, but let me react to your thing, which is, um, The world tends not to care when the crisis hits, like, like later there will be historical monographs and there will be, there might be trials at the Hague for, for Exxon CEOs, like that we might be headed towards all that, who knows. But in the moment, everybody just needs to cool down, literally, like it’s, it’s, the thing that, the [00:10:00] thing that’s happening, this is very hard for humans because we, we came up in stability and essentially your ideology was the most important thing.

What did I believe? Did I believe the right things? Am I in alignment? And actually social media became about that. Like we got millions and billions of people saying like, I think I’m aligned with the right team over here. And sometimes that’s good. And sometimes that’s bad. Physics is not ideological.

Like it doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter what you believe. It’s hot. It doesn’t matter. Like, so, and that, that can be, even if you believe in this is, this has been a little something I’ve been with. And then I’ll throw it back over to you. I bet it’s like, I believed in all the right things about climate change.

I gave money and did a lot of research. I built a database product with some other people at our former agency to let people go, you know, ProbableFutures. org, go look at it. Some of that code is mine that shows you the maps and helps you understand the science of climate change. So I’m very proud of that and it means absolutely nothing at the moment that I did that [00:11:00] work.

I don’t get any credit because the sun is hot. The sun doesn’t care what I think or that I believed. It doesn’t matter. Well, here we

Rich Ziade: feel like the work you did kind of just isn’t resonating or fell on deaf ears or was kind of, is it disheartening?

Paul Ford: Um, it was for a minute. I’ll tell you, I’ll just be real frank. It was all sort of tied in. I sort of backed off, got into learning about music and was kind of grieving my dad because I just couldn’t process for a minute. The things that are happening in the summer are pretty bad. They’re actually a little bit outside of what was predicted.

They’re not completely outside of. the prediction zone. It’s just like instead of being in the middle of the range of possibilities, we’re on the, you know, we’re kind of down the bell curve a little bit. It’s happening fast. Um, there is almost no evidence historically, uh, or emotionally that humans will rise to the occasion.

So, uh, that is really bugging me, right? Because it’s just like [00:12:00] here, we need everybody to do a lot better. they’re going to, you know what, you know what the tech industry does for me, I look at the, I look at everybody’s obsessed about AI, and they’re like AI is either going to fix the world, or it’s going to kill everybody, and they’re excited about fusion coming in and so on and so forth, and it’s like all of this is literally just turning away from the thing that’s in front of them, right, the thing that’s in front of them is like, um, Actually, all those, the, the, the fantasy around the abstractions, that the abstractions of technology are going to change everything about how humans interact and so on.

That’s been disproved over and over in the last 25 years, as technology scaled to every human being, roughly, who has a little bit of economic power. Like, literally, you know, what, 4 or 5 billion people are connected. And, and so, like, It’s tough to see everybody doubling down on narratives where it’s like actually guys know it’s it is it is physics It’s [00:13:00] physics physics is right here telling us that we actually need to change the roadmap on the product

Rich Ziade: Yeah. Uh, the track record isn’t great for humans.

Paul Ford: not great And I think we are you know Like we’ve talked about it before and we’re building software that I think is good for small resilient groups like Resilience has to be your focus because you can’t count on the world to get it together. You can hope But, and you can help, but you can’t count on it.

Rich Ziade: Yeah, I, I, I, I, I think that’s right. Um, I think. I think that I, I come at it from a slightly different angle, which is I, I’m looking at the news and seeing this sort of instability seep in. And I think, I think You know, if people can’t survive, um, everything gets unstable. Like, governments get unstable, um, the world order gets unstable.

So we can not care about Algeria and [00:14:00] Afghanistan and Iran, but the point is, um, when you lose control, Everybody gets affected, right? That’s why we have bases around the world. That’s why we have friends We call them friends because they offset, you know, what we see as a threat So we’re buddies with japan because we don’t want you know We’re buddies with south korea because north korea keeps yelling at us.

Like there’s all of that. There is a balance There’s a balance of power I don’t think

Paul Ford: Well, that’s, that’s a critical word, right? Like, that word implies a sort of stable foundational order. You can’t have balance without if every variable on either side of the balance is changing.

Rich Ziade: Not only changing, but changing in such drastic ways that it’s not a matter of like, Oh, wait, there was a coup or Oh, our ally lost an election. It’s literally like an entire village is rushing the parliament, right? Uh, and that That, I think, is going to lead [00:15:00] to more chaos, honestly. There’s chaos from wildfires and heat and, you know, and whatnot, and floods, but there’s also chaos because humans, if, if the, if they can’t get the basics and the basics are under threat, they’re not under threat in Europe.

Like everybody talks about the fires in Greece because people, because frankly, Americans vacation in

Paul Ford: No, and there was great and compelling footage.

Rich Ziade: And there was great, and there’s, I’m sure there’s great footage in Algeria, except nobody flew the camera over.

Paul Ford: No, there are no drones. There are no, and there’s nobody like on a, there’s nobody on an island vacation who’s trying to get their kids who are named Jeff and Jeff onto a boat.

Rich Ziade: Well, I mean, look, I mean, Al Jazeera is there. That’s how I know about it. That’s why we’re talking about it. And I think, I think this is, you know, we, we like to end these with advice. God, I have nothing

Paul Ford: Well, let me, [00:16:00] let me ask you something, because look, my job in the relationship that we project out into the world and sometimes inside the organizations that we build, I’m like the emotional interpreter, right? And so my emotional interpretation of a lot of this stuff, it’s something I talk about and I’m, I’m good at it.

And so like, you know, I, I’m like, here’s, what’s been challenging for me, what’s been challenging for me is as an American who grew up. In personally unstable circumstances, but frankly had a, a, a carpet of opportunity put in front of me once I got my act together. Okay, so like I’ve been able to live a hell of a life as someone who had to kind of put it together.

But once I put it together, whoo, off to the races. I’ve had to learn what instability is. I’ve learned a lot from you. I’ve learned a lot from. watching Al Jazeera and a lot from listening to Democracy Now! and reading magazines and working at Harper’s Magazine. Like there is a big world out there and it is a freaking mess.

Like, okay. Let me throw it back to you. You grew up in instability. You left an unstable country that was at war and you were poor. [00:17:00] And your family was not westernized. And, um, you ended up getting a lot of the carpet got put out for you to you had to get an education, which are our government did a very good job, I think, of providing

Rich Ziade: They paid for it. I didn’t go to an Ivy League school I I was able to get loans for law school and and and with no credit by the way because the loans were guaranteed by the government So yeah, I’m I’m very fortunate

Paul Ford: So, but You absolutely, and I learned this wiring, this is a lot of the wiring that makes you very successful in business, and some of it is just you, and some of it is your, your background, just like everybody. Um, you expect a level of instability in the world, you expect a certain amount of chaos.

But you’re like me, you got kids, you live in a house, and you like your life, and you’re seeing this happen. You saw it happen in Lebanon, a place you’re deeply connected to, you’re seeing this happen in the world.

Rich Ziade: Mm hmm. Yeah,

Paul Ford: are you going with this? Because I get worried, I stay up at night and I worry, and then I go, I don’t have control over a lot of it, I should talk about it, I [00:18:00] should use my platform, we’re doing that right now.

Where’s your head at?

Rich Ziade: um, I I I’m a little more optimistic and I’m optimistic for two reasons Well, you know the Lebanese there’s you know, I’m Lebanese and when we leave We seek higher ground. That’s what we do. The diaspora is essentially like, okay, this is bananas. I just need to go to a place where I can get to a hospital if I need one and I can get a job and I can raise a family right like so We

Paul Ford: is why, and there are, the people don’t know this, like, cause, it’s actually not, it’s not, it’s not a famous diaspora, like, let’s say the Irish, or the, or, or Jews around the world, right? Like, but the Lebanese are everywhere. And it’s funny, until you know the Lebanese, you don’t realize it, because then they’ll be like, Shakira is half Lebanese.

Like, it’s, it does, but

Rich Ziade: there’s more Lebanese in Brazil than there are in Lebanon. Just to give you an idea. Yeah and and and for us, we [00:19:00] don’t believe in the future too much. And so we’re always in motion. We’re always, always angling. Always. Constantly. And when I

Paul Ford: this, is that, can we call that diaspora thinking? Is that like a kind of thinking that like that approach?

Rich Ziade: yeah, I’m the new kid in school.

Paul Ford: Yeah.

Rich Ziade: I don’t have a choice, right? I gotta survive. Everybody’s looking at me funny. I’m new. Um, and, and, uh, I gotta settle in. I might assimilate, but I probably won’t entirely assimilate. Like, I have, you know, my uncle’s name is Faraj, but he calls, everyone calls him Frank. And I have another uncle named Ghassan, and everybody calls him Gus.

So there’s a little bit of assimilation, but believe me, if you talk to Frank for five minutes, you’ll realize he’s Lebanese. He’s very Lebanese, right? So, we, we do just enough. As I look at the world, can the world, like, can we find higher [00:20:00] ground? I think the question that, that, that, that is raised is can we, I was like, you know, and for me is like, yes, I think a lot of, let me be a little more optimistic about climate change.

I think a lot of the assumptions that we made about where we can be and what we can do are going to change, meaning the Mediterranean is going to boil like soup. Right.

Paul Ford: Deli, like a, yeah, but you get the, the pulpo, it’s delightful. You put a little spice

Rich Ziade: delicious, but the, you know, the Mediterranean tourist economy, Italy, Greece, the South of France, Spain is about to see massive change, right?

Like it’s, it’s billions upon billions of dollars in, in, in business and revenue and GDP. That’s going to just lop right off because people, I was in Greece this year. You know, here’s a real world story. I was in one of those islands, this is before the fires, I didn’t see any of the

Paul Ford: you went over to Lebanon and then you [00:21:00] did a quick hop to Greece.

Rich Ziade: quick, quick hop to Greece.

I was on one of those charming islands, like a lesser known one, not one of the big popular ones, where they have like, you know, stepping stone villages, where there’s shops and restaurants and whatnot. I was there for five days. During the day, it was completely empty.

Paul Ford: So hot.

Rich Ziade: empty. It was so hot. The restaurants were empty at eight o’clock at night.

It was bustling, right? But let me tell you whoever went to that vacation went on that vacation. He’s like, uh, I don’t think i’m gonna do that again I’m not gonna go sit in my hotel room for 12 hours and then go out for dinner. Like that’s not

Paul Ford: It, it, it is bad for the brand, right? You want to go to the beach. You want to have a delightful, you want to have a delightful salad under a blue umbrella.

Rich Ziade: That’s coming now, what do people do they seek other paths, right? Like does that mean Denmark like Copenhagen’s gonna be do great? Possibly. I don’t know. I don’t know enough about climate change. I do know that the Mediterranean is in trouble Does that mean [00:22:00] people? Vacation elsewhere. Does that mean New York, you know, does that mean Florida’s done for but New York City and Montreal will thrive because they’re not in the target I don’t know enough.

I don’t know enough. What I do know is this though Paul

Paul Ford: there are, there are predictive models to tell you about what might happen, but we’re, we’re kind of on, like, we’re at the, we’re getting on the tail end of the curve. It’s a little weird right now. There are very, very few, you can’t count on it. You cannot point to one piece of land and say, I’m going to be okay.

Rich Ziade: Yeah, and and I think the the now I’m talking about, you know, first world societies that can Pack up and move and go to Montreal

Paul Ford: I have, you’re going to have 2 billion people or however many, I pulled that number out, who actually, they need bread and they got to get somewhere with their kids.

Rich Ziade: haven’t seen, I mean, it has been an explosive, um, frankly, it’s probably one of the most prosperous stretches in human history over, like, over the last 150 years,

Paul Ford: After, well, [00:23:00] after World War II in particular, just an unbelievable expansion.

Rich Ziade: I mean, what does a, you know, what does your enemy do when there’s massive famine in your country? What will, will the United States do if there’s massive famine and unrest in Iran? What will they do? What will China do when their neighbor in India, it’ll be uninhabitable.

What will they do? Will they be sympathetic? I’ll tell you what I think

Paul Ford: what will, what will Pakistan do?

Rich Ziade: What will Pakistan do? So that, I think, look, I’m sad about vacationing, not vacationing in the Mediterranean, but frankly what I think about are those parts of the world where they simply don’t have that adaptability.

Paul Ford: be clear. That is the correct focus. So much climate stuff comes down to, like, will my house be okay? And I get that. Like, that is a normal thing. Go research that. Find it out. You’ll learn a lot. Okay? Like, mine’s at more risk of flooding. Go figure that out. Um, there’s a website called Habitable. Go look at it.

It helps you figure out where your, you [00:24:00] know, what your risk is. But then go to probablefutures. org, a thing that we, we helped with, um, and you can actually see the global map.

Rich Ziade: Let’s, let’s, let’s be, let’s have a more modest goal for this podcast, which, and which is. Let’s at least know about it. Everybody’s like, Oh my God, brush fires in Greece, like the world. If you, and you have to seek these other sources of information out. And it’s not as exciting. It’s not as relatable because you were in Greece four years ago for your honeymoon.

God bless. But this is really like the, there isn’t a knowledge today. And I think one of the most striking things that came out of the work with probable futures was he wasn’t saying it’s going to, you know, the temperature is going to go up 30 degrees. He’s like, you just need four degrees and you just have absolute chaos.

Paul Ford: Well, I mean, one, 1. 5 degree global average is absolute chaos. And then like a hot summer. is a result where instead of having 10 days [00:25:00] over 100 degrees in Houston, you have two or three months and now people don’t want to live there anymore. Like there’s an article in the Wall Street Journal noted leftist rag about how people just want to leave, um, want to, want to leave Houston.

I have an idea. I’m going to throw, I’m going to throw a curveball into this because this podcast, even though it is about relatively difficult subjects, it does have a sponsor.

Rich Ziade: Tell

Paul Ford: can’t, can’t believe I’m doing this. You and I build a product called a board and we’ve talked about it before as, and we’re talking about it maybe as like software to help small groups be resilient.

I’ve been thinking a lot about resilience, this very subject, because that’s the way that I deal with all this information. I’m like, what? So what do we need to do? And I think that resilience comes down to two things for me, critically, knowledge and skills and health. If you can keep your, if you can make your body more resilient, and you can get some knowledge and skills, especially to help others,

Rich Ziade: You can adapt.

Paul Ford: You’re building and you’re building communities, you know, my people are going to show up in the in the raft when it floods. Well, you need to get a [00:26:00] raft to maybe like it’s, it’s stuff like that. Well, you got to be able to paddle the raft. So you better work your upper body like it’s it’s actually really simple, fundamental stuff.

So, What I would like us to do, since we have a knowledge management and process definition tool designed for sharing information, is to start to track some of these resources and ideas. in a board and then talk about what we’re learning as we do it. This should like, we’re kind of refocusing the podcast very gently in real time, right?

Like, cause we want to react to and be relevant in the world. And this will be our tool for talking about like what’s happening in the world. So we’ll make that board. We’ll share it.

Rich Ziade: and and I think I think you know, what’s striking to me I’m not a white paper guy. Like we’re not gonna put a pile of white papers in the in the board We’re gonna actually point you to places that are telling you what’s happening today. Al Jazeera streams live 24 7 on YouTube It’s free and it’s as good as any other news source unless you really want to know what’s going on and cut that which that I can’t help you there [00:27:00] but You know, let’s list those out, right?

Rather than like really dry academic papers with, you know, float with charts and graphs. Um,

Paul Ford: I will say this too. Like you, you, You don’t actually need to know an enormous amount. There’s this climate scientist, Michael Mann, who is, uh, right down the middle. He’s been, he’s been in it from the beginning. Like, he’s decades and decades. And he is a well known figure. He’ll show up on national TV.

And it’s just like, he’s like, yeah, it’s bad. It’s not total tipping point catastrophe bad, like some people are saying. But you know what? If we, um, stop putting carbon in the atmosphere, we could stop this from getting worse. And I watched him give a talk, it was like on the Today Show. And he said variations on that probably nine

Rich Ziade: He’s just saying the same thing over and

Paul Ford: Because there’s, there is nothing else to say. And he says it with a smile and he is a, he’s a tough actor. Like he’s, he goes to war with people on Twitter. But when he’s on that TV show, he is just like, okay, well, let me tell

Rich Ziade: to get to the best possible act, [00:28:00] outcome, right? That’s like during COVID when the scientists are like, you know, if you wear a mask, it’ll just be less likely. And then they get screamed at and they just keep smiling through it.

Paul Ford: You just, you just, you beat the drum. So I think like what feels really tough with this stuff is you’re like, I have to learn so much. Not really. It’s hot. And we have to put, we have to stop putting carbon in the atmosphere. You can learn all about different greenhouse gases. I tried, you can get a chemistry degree in your spare time, or you can say it’s really hot and we have to stop doing those things.

And that’s going to be really uncomfortable and difficult. And we’re not going to be able to get it all done right away. So there’s gonna be really bad human factors and you got to vote and make your life sort of aligned with what you believe about what should happen to people. So let’s, yeah, let’s use our own tool to create some resources and guides.

We’ll put some Al Jazeera stuff in, um, some. Some Bloomberg stuff. There’s a, Bloomberg Green is a good publication. And I think like that’s the sponsorship I’m looking for, right? Like that’s, that’s how we want to be doing this. Um, so check out Aboard. com. We’ll put a link on, we’ll put a link on the Aboard Twitter.

We’ll connect it to [00:29:00] the, we’ll mention it on the next podcast. We’ll figure out how to do this right. Um, Rich, what else should the people know?

Rich Ziade: Um, they are listening to thank you people for listening to the Zioti and Ford podcast. Uh, we’re at Ziotiford. com and at Ziotiford on Twitter slash X. Um, and, uh, check us out, give us, if people still do the stars thing, give us five stars and check out Aboard at aboard. com. Yes, it’s our startup, but it’s, it’s a, it’s a tool to kind of help you make order out of chaos, uh, for just about anything.

Um, I know that sounds crazy, but check it out. Uh, that’s, that’s all I got, Paul. This is a heady one, my friend.

Paul Ford: I, I think what it’s, we, big picture is important and it’s good that we’re talking about it, but the reality is, and what I think we’ll, we’ll probably end up just naturally spending more time talking about, is how do you stay healthy, resilient, and reactive while you learn [00:30:00] about this new world? And, uh, that’s good.

I need, I’m going to go ride my bike a little bit, even though it’s hot.

Rich Ziade: Nice. Everyone have a lovely week. Take care of yourselves.

Paul Ford: Bye!

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